S2: E6 - The POWER of Dopamine! with Jess Psaros

A very special guest is joining me to talk about the importance of dopamine in our world language classes. You don't want to miss this conversation with Jess Psaros!

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Transcript

Annabelle Williamson  

Welcome back to my podcast teaching la vida loca for season two. I'm Annabelle, your Maestro loca, and I am ready to kick off season two with even more enthusiasm, magic, and tips and tricks for your classroom. Get set for a ride of inspiration, unapologetic authenticity, and ideas to spark more joy in your teaching journey. I'm turning up the excitement and elated to have you right here with me. I'm not just your host, I'm your cheerleader, and I am thrilled you're tuning in, buckle up, and let's do this. Let's tackle teaching la vida loca together.

Annabelle Williamson  

Hi there, welcome to season two, episode five of teaching la vida loca. Y'all know, I am not a big guest person. But I have a very special guest on that I have been dropping hints about for at least two months, both in workshops, in Familia loca sessions, on Instagram, saying, there's gonna be a really good podcast coming, there's gonna be a really good podcast. I mean, I'm super excited because that podcast is now. My friend Jess Psaros is a teacher of Spanish. And I'll let her introduce more about herself. But she has been in my Familia loca for quite some time, I had the opportunity to finally meet her in person recently, in North Carolina, which was really, special. We didn't get to have a glass of wine together, like we have been anticipating, tonight, we are but I'm drinking fake wine, she's getting to drink real wine. But we're on Zoom together instead of in real life, but we just hit it off and really jived. And one of the things that we do really agree upon is the importance of dopamine in our world language classrooms and the importance of fostering the great brain chemicals and stimulating the right things while lowering cortisol is essential to a positive learning environment for acquisition to occur for kids to be taken care of. And that's what we're going to be talking to her about today. And she has all the research and actual real data and knowledge behind it. I just talk about it because I've seen it firsthand in my class. So, she luckily has like the theory and the practice. And I'm super excited that she's here to join me. So, Jess take it away. Tell us a little bit about yourself and yourself. And then I have a question for you.

Jess  

Thank you, I am so honored to be on your podcast. And super excited to share this. I've wanted to shout this from the rooftops since I did my research for my masters back in 2019. Just pre COVID. And I just think there's so much to what the impact of dopamine and cortisol or ultimate impact of cortisol has in especially in the middle school classroom or any even high school like in the range of adolescence, which it was my focus of my study. And I am very, very excited to share about why the things that we're doing in the classroom right now are not just a trend, they're not just the next new thing that you know administrators are telling us to do. It's, it's based in science. And I feel like a lot of what we're doing right now feels just like the next new thing. But it's not, there's so much more to it. And there is more basis in science that is evolutionary, that we really need to make sure it's not a phase in teaching and make sure that we continue to do to make sure our students are learning at high levels. So, I'm super excited to be here.

Annabelle Williamson  

Me too. One thing you said before, right before we started that I loved was that makes so much sense. And it ties into what you just said is like our brains have functioned the same way for 1000s of years. So, like what we're doing right now feels great, but it's not a new fad sort of thing. It's just how our brains function and how they can thrive best. So, on that note, will you start by explaining the role of dopamine? Like I think people know that word dopamine, but they may not know exactly what it is or what role it plays. For me. I've only been recently really learning about it because in the last year was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. And I learned that I'm dopamine deficient, which is why I like crave dopamine all the time and those hits of like, oh, to keep me engaged to keep me in whatever I'm doing. So, if you could explain the role of dopamine in motivation and reward and how we can leverage it to enhance our classrooms or enhance the language acquisition process?

 Jess  

Yeah, so I think the things that we already know are important in creating environments that induce a dopamine experience in students. I mean, when you google dopamine, it's the happy hormone, it's the one that makes you feel good. It's the feel-good hormone. And that hormone is like not in the sexual sense at all. Although it does come out then too. But the things that we know, we've heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, we've heard of having fun in the classroom, it will enhance learning, we've heard about novelty. We've heard about adolescence making connections with peers. We've heard about the importance of structure and routine. And we've heard about many other things, and some more specific things that can connect it to the language classroom. But in general, it's about, we've heard that dopamine, you gotta be having fun. And there's so much more to it than that. There's, whenever you can create an environment that helps a student have like, have dopamine in their head, they have an intrinsic motivation to repeat that behavior. It's not there, they are evolutionarily developed to want to repeat that behavior. So, anytime that we can concoct an activity or some experience in the classroom, whether it's a planned experience or something that we do as teachers, to make sure that students feel safe, we are helping introduce dopamine into their brains. And it's not hard, it's not difficult. It doesn't have to be a lesson plan that makes that happen. It can just be students feeling safe in the classroom because that is that is the beginning of Maslow's hierarchy. Well, now, it's not even the beginning, it's the next step. So, one of the things that I feel like is important, when students walk in the classrooms, they know that you're there for them, no matter what. So much like you do Annabelle, I don't talk about, I don't do Spanish for the first couple of classes, because it's so important to me, especially for the students that I'm meeting for the first time to know that I'm not just a Spanish teacher, I am an adult that you will have in this building for these three years of your life. And I'm here for you and your friends. You don't have to be a Spanish student, to come see me for things you need. And I feel like that's so important. That is the physiological, like that is the base of Maslow’s.

Annabelle Williamson  

I think that's interesting that, for me, obviously, it's the happy chemical. And so much of what I'm doing in my classroom, leads to like, all the gamification things I do, and, you know, all that leads to dopamine, but just the simple structures and systems that I have in place every single day, greeting them at the door with a smile in the same exact way. Following the same exact routine, at the start of my class, all those things are creating a dopamine rich environment just because it's security in knowing exactly what to expect, knowing what's coming, knowing that it's safe to speak in English and in L one, to show me that they're understanding and want to contribute, whatever you know, I think that's interesting. And I hadn't thought about literally until now that that is also dopamine rich experience. I don't know that's interesting because I of course, I'm always thinking, it's intrinsically motivating them because of dopamine but I'm, I'm more like, I think focused on how I'm doing it in the more strategic, injecting fun into my lessons and novelty, those sorts of ways. But like that, it can be as baseline as having routine and systems and structures to make even like the SEL work that we're doing, like asking how they're doing those sorts of things are also providing them dopamine and safety and security. That's super cool. 

Jess  

Yeah, and I think I got away from your question, so I'm gonna go back to it real quick, you asked about the role of motivation and reward. One of the things that I think is most often misunderstood about adolescents is that their brain is at this critical point of growth and pruning. And the so growth, meaning they are because they're, their amygdala is so receptive to dopamine. So, it's not just like you and I, like, yes, you and I enjoy things we experience dopamine, we have fun, we have great times, adolescents are more sensitive to dopamine. And I can send you a document that links where I learned that from. And so, it's not the normal levels of dopamine that you and I experienced, it's, it's, they're much more sensitive to it. And so, they're much more willing to, because they're more sensitive to it, they're more willing to take risks, and more willing to do things that are new and different, which goes back to the novelty. But it's not that reward is so different in adolescence. It's not, it's not just how you and I experience it, it's a much more heightened feeling and heightened experience for them.

Annabelle Williamson  

Is it then also a more, are they more... you used a much better word than I'm going to use? Is it also the same for cortisol? Are they more like, are their receptors or whatever, more prone to feel like their stress levels can go higher than ours? Or like handle that differently? Or is it specific to dopamine than being more sensitive?

Jess  

I don't know I I'm going to be learning more about the effects of cortisol for the presentation I'm going to be doing during in Familia loca conference this summer. My research was more based on dopamine. But what I do know about cortisol is that it basically prevents the synapses from being as effective as they typically are, this synapse is there where the connections in the brain and learning happens so and the presence of cortisol prevents a lot of people have heard of the word neuroplasticity, which is the brain's ability to learn new things and make new connections as well as prune unused connections. And the presence of cortisol prevents that from happening. And the creation of new connections is learning. So just the presence of cortisol, it is directly impacting, directly impacts that I feel like my classroom, I do everything in my power to create a safe, fun sometimes, or maybe a little bit more than that environment, but it's mostly safe. My goal is to prevent any existence of cortisol. And I'll talk about that more this summer, and the strategies that I use for that. 

Annabelle Williamson  

iIt makes so much sense because what you just explained to is a more scientific way that I've always looked at the affective filter, like we've heard about this affective filter in my brain that is so non-theory based, non-researched base, I've always seen it as like a brick wall, a literal brick wall inside of a person's head, and the higher the brick wall, and the more impossible for any acquisition or learning of any kind to occur. And I know that that brick wall is built because of stress or distress, because of anxiety, because of hunger, discomfort, all these different factors. And the more we can create scenarios where students feel like they're comfortable in our space, that they do have a place and a sense of belonging in the classroom community. That it is fun, but that fun isn't necessarily quite as key as not being stressed or anxious within our space. All those things I've imagined is like breaking down this brick wall, so that the acquisition can happen. But if it won't happen without, like lowering cortisol, so what you just explained is like a scientific, scientific explanation, I think of what that means. So that's fascinating. I love that love that. Okay, so we talked about dopamine, and how adolescents are highly sensitive, and they're more likely to take more risks if there's dopamine, because they're highly sensitive to it. Could you talk more about that?

Jess
Yeah, so one of the things that's also really judgy, I guess, about adolescents is that they're really, they take risks, and they are impulsive, and they're sometimes rude. And there's, like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of judgy things about middle schoolers and adolescents in general. And one of the things that we need to understand as educators is that, though they are highly, highly affected by dopamine, and that the feel-good hormone, they they're going to, they're going to take risks, they want to feel good, they want to be rewarded by things they do. They're trying to do new things. Evolutionarily, this was the time of life when people would leave their home and find a mate and do things that were riskier because they needed to, they need to leave the home and try new things that they hadn't done yet. But what is not yet developed is their prefrontal cortex. So, everything that tells you what is right and wrong in the world to do and because this part of their brain development helps form that. And so, while we won't be promoting have fun welcome in the fact that they are going well or maybe aren't things that we're going to look at them like really, like, that's the choice you just made. But that's, that's normal. And that's expected because that's how they learn. Their brains are so primed. In this growth, they're in a growth and pruning. So, they're, they're trying to create these new connections to form their prefrontal cortex. But also prune away bad things, bad learning or whatever. So, if we are creating safe environments for them to have this fun, exciting risk-taking environment, they're going to be developing in positive healthy ways.

So, the part where a lot of people misunderstand is that middle school adolescents in general, have this very highly sensitive amygdala, which is where we receive dopamine, but we don't yet have a developed prefrontal cortex. And so, we have, I'm not an adolescent, but the adolescents don't have the filter that adults have, we have experienced all of this. And we have developed our executive functioning center of our brain to be able to take what might be a dopamine inducing situation and decide if that's something we want to do. Online shopping for me, dopamine inducing situation, I must make a grownup decision as to whether I can do it, adolescents, not so much. And the adolescents get a bad rap a lot of times because they, they do things in a way that is impulsive or whatever. But it's, it's because they are biologically right now in a position where they are trying to individualize, and they are trying to evolutionarily separate themselves from their home and figure out who they are as a person separate from all of that. And while dopamine is great and having a highly sensitive dopamine center in their brain, the amygdala, it's not super helpful when you don't have the prefrontal cortex, the place that helps you make those decisions. So, we need to make sure that we are creating safe environments for students to experience these dopamine boosts. And make connections that are going to help them later.

Annabelle Williamson  

I think, to our advantage, though, like, if we are providing them with the right kinds of like, intrinsic rewards through dopamine and encouragement for their risk taking, that can be such a positive, a positive thing, like I know, a lot of people may see that as like, oh, they're driving me nuts, like the calling out the blurting. But how powerful to leverage that risk taking when it is at its prime, when they are like not as scared to, I don't know to... because of whatever's not being fully developed, like the sense of right and wrong. But like, I think about the adult classes I have. And I think about like the people I've taught and how, as people get older, they're less and less likely, in my world language classroom, to take risks, and to speak in the target language. And especially adults because they know that they know there's a right and a wrong way. And they know there's some way to conjugate this, and they just don't want to say it if they can't conjugate it correctly, and all these things. Whereas the younger the child, the less fear there is in making those mistakes, and figuring out how we can through lessening cortisol levels, through creating a safe environment, through creating a classroom community where there is belonging, really leverage that piece of the highly sensitive adolescent brain to dopamine to use that intrinsic motivation to encourage that risk taking and use of target language. Am I making any sense? Does that make sense?

Jess  

100%. And I think that it's the, all call answering, which is my favorite in my classes is one of the activities that ends up creating the memories of "Oh, that time I called out the wrong thing". So, we as educators, and what I've done in my classroom, the all call, like the choral response. I save the choral response until I'm at least in the third class of any new word, new phrase. Because there's guaranteed to be absences, there's guaranteed to be kids having a bad day. So, I want to make sure that kids have had at least one class of input so that they are going to be successful. So, when they do those choral responses there's not a chance that they're like oh yeah, I barely sounded different because my classmates all sound the same. It's not I like, it's he/she, they liked. I think that if we can make sure we protect new learning a new word new phrase from those choral responses, because like you said, the younger the kids, the more the more willing they are to take those risks. And that's biologically true. Their brain wants to take those risks, their brain is ready and excited. And then it learns. And then it learns from taking that risk. And what did that risk do? And for a kid who was maybe absent or had a bad night, the night before, because they have a baby sister, and you know, and they didn't sleep, so their brain is not functioning normally. So, what I try to do in my classroom is I try to make sure that I've had at least two classes of just input, whether written, I tried to do spoken first, I hate doing written first, because I want to make sure that they hear the right pronunciation. Second class is often written, third class is the one where I start with choral responses. Because that is the riskiest thing we do as far as peer interaction, for adolescents.

Annabelle Williamson  

You know what's so funny, though, is like, that's because you're a very experienced acquisition driven instruction teacher. And for so many teachers who are moving to this, it's like, it's like, they, there are so many teachers who find that the choral response, what you're calling like all call response, the choral response is no risk, because everybody's voice is involved. But what you're saying is, it's still risky, because kids still know that the people next to them hear whether they've said something wrong. And they still know if oh, my God, the whole class said this. And I said that, that still a cortisol raising risk, like, response. That's fascinating, because I think that so many people who shift to this way of teaching, instead of like, calling people out on the spot to respond individually, which I can't fathom doing. That shift to choral response already feels like this huge, you know, like, no, that's not a risk, because everybody's speaking all at once. But it still can raise cortisol. I think that's really, interesting. Yeah.

Jess  

I used to start, when I first started with acquisition driven instruction, I would do PQA, because I was like, oh, we can talk about everybody. And then we hear it 25 times. But the problem is, was I've found it to be yucky, as my first experience, realizing the first intro, kids had not heard it enough to be able to even repeat after me, they hadn't heard it enough. And then it just, it just raised those cortisol levels. And I just was, I was like, Okay, I gotta find a different way, I must find ways to engage them. So, I often will use clip, chat, pic talk, ways that I'm on stage, the whole class, and then maybe we'll do like something at the end so they can see the words in addition to having heard them, it's usually class number two. But I want to make sure that they have heard that word and connected. So, another, another brain thing that acquisition driven instruction does that I want to make sure to mention is high sensory motor input, which is basically when we attach a visual, when we when we connect any two or more senses. So, in acquisition driven instruction, a lot of verbs or for me some of the like, when I say round, I make a shape. And with my hands, it's round or long, you know, like, or small and big, like we show it. So, there's a physical representation as well. So, when we see it and hear it, those are two or more senses being activated at the same time. And those have a much more much higher likelihood of being remembered than just hearing it alone or just seeing it. And so those are two, those are two other ways that it's not, that's not directly connected to dopamine, but that's connected to how the brain learns.

Annabelle Williamson  

I think there's one more piece that I’ll link, since you mentioned gestures and TPR. I'll link to a blog that I have with YouTube videos of all my gestures for like vocabulary one A and one B in Spanish, so people can see what gestures I have for high frequency words. Um, but oh my god, the importance of gesturing and TPR is huge. I agree. One thing that I have always done and haven't really thought about just how important it is, until this conversation with you, is when I'm doing choral reading, not just choral response. But choral reading. I use unicorn pee. I know you've experienced this in that workshop. But the power of unicorn pee just to make students read, I discovered the power of unicorn pee when I taught high school, I needed a way to get everybody to read with me. And so, I pretend that unicorn pees on a marker, I don't pretend it really pees on a marker. And then I trace the words that students are going to read. But as soon as I get to a word that they have not heard a billion times, like even if they heard it in the clip chat, we're just reading a summary of the clip chat together, when I get to a word that they've only heard a few times, I don't touch it. And I just say it because I don't even want them to choral read without being totally certain of how it should sound. Because it could be that they're just seeing it here, for the first time after only hearing it five, six, 10, 20 times, instead of the other words out there that they've heard 50 times and they've seen before. So, I think that's really fascinating, too, because that's something I've always done. And naturally known it's the right thing but didn't understand just how important it is for again, continuing to lower the cortisol. I think that's interesting. Would you share what your absolute favorite ways? I know that's hard. Because you have a billion of them, what are your favorite ways to boost dopamine and lower cortisol?

Jess  

I think before I share those things, I want to share one thing that I think the is one of the most important things that makes this topic not so trendy or like, oh, let's have fun in the classroom, the brain, any brain, including much definitely including the adolescent brain, dopamine is very connected to very much connected to activity in the working memory. And information must stay in our working memory for a certain amount of time before it can be stored as long-term memory, which in some cases we don't have control over. Because long term memory storage happens a lot when we're sleeping. And some students are don't have a structure to the home environment as we would like them to, to be able to have enough sleep to make sure that their working memory gets stored as long-term memory. But if we can at least create an environment in our classrooms where there's enough dopamine that they are happy to be there, they feel relaxed when they come. And I'll share some of my strategies in a moment that I think one of my biggest one of my biggest things is it's not just about having fun in the classroom. It's it literally equals learning it, it fundamentally, from a brain chemistry standpoint, if we are doing these things, our students are more likely to learn the content that we're teaching them, which removes me a little bit from my passion for making sure students feel happy and welcome, invited into my room, because I truly believe in that alone, not just because of the dopamine factor, like I truly care about them. But it also really works to my benefit because it means that they're gonna probably learn. So, it's a little bit. It's a bonus, I would say it's not why I do what I do. But it's like, oh, so all the things that I do mean, they're going to probably learn my content better. Okay, that super, I like that.

Annabelle Williamson  

It's not just a bonus. But I also think that that links back to and my most listened to episode ever was I think, number five and it's listened to your gut, which is like, when a teacher is feeling these like holes in their gut and in their heart, that they're not happy being in the classroom anymore, and they're not finding joy. And they're not able to create environments where students really are being like feel that they're seeing, heard, loved, cared for, and empowered to listen to that and it's okay to leave the classroom like, because, again, without that the learning isn't happening. So, you're right. It's not just a bonus. But without it, it's going to be a billion times harder to achieve acquisition to achieve learning, because it's just needed. And it's a known fact and a scientific fact. So, I love that.

Jess  

And it's like, how can we expect kids to learn? It's math that goes back to math, if there, if the kids don't feel safe if the kids don't feel like they belong, if the kids don't feel like, it's an environment where they're welcome, which, I mean, there are times in our lives as adults that we must deal with situations like that. But that's not for a kid to deal with. We're not preparing them for adults, because their brain isn't an adult brain yet. And so many people are like, oh, well, we're preparing them for high school, we're preparing them for adulthood, they're not an adult. You can't prepare an adolescent brain for adulthood because it's not an adult brain yet. So, we need to stop with all of that, like, let's prepare them for high school, let's prepare them for no you. Because they're not ready. Their brain isn't ready. Like for like pre-K, getting them to read know, they need to have fun. They need play-based learning. And so sorry, that's a different tangent, but you prepare them earlier than their brain is ready for. And I think that's the easiest one for people to connect with. Because people know that, you know, there might be some four-year-olds, three-year-olds that can read and that's fantastic. That's so exciting for that kid. I hope they're playing as well. But so, some of the strategies that I love, love, love to promote dopamine, and I start with those. And then I'll talk about preventing cortisol ones. Greeting at the door. I, this time of year, I get less consistent. Because I'm grading more, I'm doing all the things that I'm meeting I need I remind myself every day I'm like, it's like you can wait. Greet them at the door. Kids might not look like they love it, especially middle schoolers. They'll they might walk right by you. But if you insist that they greet you, they will and the feel that validation of just existing of like, Hey, welcome. Hey, I'm so happy you're here. And I will be they say not to be sarcastic with middle schoolers because they don't get it. But it's, it's so fun to be like, Hey, you're here and I'm excited. You have Spanish today. I have Spanish today. I'm so excited. They're like, you have Spanish every day. I'm like, I know, isn't it the best? So yeah, greeting students at the door is so fundamentally important for making connections, students will. I can see their affect as they walk in the room. I don't do any of the fancy, like handshakes or greetings. I have a colleague that does like a quick connect as they go into the classroom. And I love that. And I aspire to do that someday. I want to be able to like really to connect with students. I just I might have classes of 38 next year, and I don't know that I can. I don't know that I can do that. So, greeting at the door. I have things much like Andrea, Andrea, Andrea, I'm speaking Spanish. I'm much like Andrea, I, for the past, I don't know, six, seven years, I have had things in my classroom for my students, hair ties, deodorant, nail files, tissues, safety pins, makeup remover wipes, all the things. Tide sticks. Tide sticks is a big one. Huge on pasta day. Especially for students that wear white pants on pas today, I don't get it, they do it. It's whatever. Just to feel like they have somewhere in the building. And this is one of the ones that like extended beyond like this is not just for students who take Spanish but any student and building. So, I have a lot of friends like bringing their friend down to senora to come and get what they need. And it's to feel like, they, oh, things for the time of the month as well. Which I have also learned from, I'm a GSA facilitator at my school. And I have learned from many of my students not to call them feminine products not to call them girl things like, it's the time of the month. It's not gender based. So, for whoever that helped, might help. And my other thing that I think I'm I might get voted out of doing this but to promote with dopamine is to make sure that my students always feel the most in control in my classroom. So, they come in and they have a do now or start together depending on the day but usually three out of four times, it's a do now. And they write a number on their do now a 123 or four, and they tell me how they're feeling that day. And when I go to score those, I don't score the ones, it doesn't count. When I'm having a bad day, I wouldn't want my supervisor coming to observe me. So, if they put a one, it doesn't count, they can put nothing. If they put something I celebrate the crop out of that. And I write all over it when I'm scoring the papers like, oh, my gosh, you did this much. And you were having a one day like, you are so resilient you are so but it's okay, if you're not to like, so that the students are in control in that way. And I also talk about like, if it's all ones, then I'm going to have a different conversation, like what's going on? How can I help you? What can we do to make sure that you're coming to school ready? Who can we have conversations with to make sure that you're, I see you nodding a lot? What are you connecting with? 

Annabelle Williamson  

I just think that that's so beautiful. And I think that if somebody's uncomfortable with this conversation right now, or this, like you are talking about this, I would push them to, like, lean into that discomfort, and question why, because most of the time, educators have all the power in the classroom. And I think it's so powerful, how you just said that, and I already marked what minute we're at. So, I can go back and find this exact spot to quote you, because I think that giving students that power back, and allowing them to have control and know that they have choice and know that they oversee their learning experience is so important. And also going to be get us to that point of creating these classrooms where students feel belonging, it's going to get us there so much faster, because you are showing them as is clear as possible, that you are valuing whoever they come as each day, and honoring that, and letting it be okay to show up as they are no matter what they're feeling like you are you are from the get go saying, I want to know every day what you're at. And if you're struggling, then the effort you're putting in is not going to be literally graded. And I think that there's a lot of educators who are still have a mindset of leave whatever you're feeling at the door, it's time for this. And that's not a thing, like that can't be a thing, we can't leave our emotions at the door and just, you know, do and if we can, like, okay, we can be professionals, and we can do this and work today. That still because our brain is more developed than theirs. And so, to expect a child to just leave who they are and how they're feeling at the door and check their emotions at the door, when they've got 9 billion things going on is just not feasible. So, I just I love that. That's why I'm like nodding and listening and nodding and listening. It's just powerful.

Jess  

Thanks. So, I do two other things to make sure that to promote dopamine to make sure that students are the ones that feel like they're in control. So, my school might be moving more towards a raise your hand to leave the classroom situation, which I get I understand that like some students, and I would say 1% of my students, although I have 210 students, so like 1% is to you know, it's, it's, it's a lot, or not a lot, but um, the they choose to go at times when they have to do work and I get that 100% get that and that's fight or flight, that's cortisol there's, there's chemicals in our brain going on like if you have like so what I do in my classroom as we I will either have them go back and sign out and then on their way out, show me a sign a sign language of for bathroom water or nurse or if it's a student that really feels like they want to like get permission. I will they'll do it from their seat and they'll kind of sign it and shake it in the air or be off like the water one is I never catch that one, but they'll like vigorously tap their chin with the W. So, they are the ones that are in control and they're not asking permission, they're letting you know where they're going, because I tell them I'm responsible for you right now. But you're the one that needs to take care of your body. And, and back, effective this one for me is I realize what activities are, get me out of here activities. When I see that there are one, there's one sign out for the class for eighth grade classes, versus a day where I have six sign outs in each class. I'm like, okay, that activity felt like I get me out of here. What do I need to tweak? What is it about that one? Or how can I introduce the activity in a way that helps them feel like it's important, and that they don't have to escape it, because they don't have to go to the bathroom. They just feel like they need to leave the leave the room for a minute, because it's getting too stressful. And then they're leaving learning because language is all about input. So that's my second one. And then so bathroom, grading, and seating, seating charts, is my third one that I know you're all about the seating charts. So, I don't know how you I know you, you have the way that you like, document it. I let my students at the beginning of the year have choice seating 100% choice. And I talked to them about how it's a choice assigned seat. So, like, you come in, and you have choice that day, hopefully everybody's there. That's the risk is part for me. And then if every day, they know that that's their spot, which feels safe. That is dopamine, that so this one is the one that crosses, that's a dopamine prevention, they know that that is their spot. If I do choice seating every day, that's highly risky. It's about who gets there first, they're in my seat, no, that's my seat. And so, I do choice seating until I tell until they show me that that choice isn't something that they are capable of being responsible for. And then when I do change seating based on that, I only change the seats of the students who have shown me that they can't choose on their own. And so, I'm rewarding students who have had self-control who have shown me higher executive functioning. And then I help students who haven't yet gotten there. Because every because they like girls’ brains tend to people born as a girl tend to hit maturity, hit puberty earlier than people born as male. And so, there are some obvious like, obviously, there's some fluctuation, there are some people that are closer, but so it does tend to impact the people born as male first. But it, it's also because their brains not ready. So, I'm not punishing them, I'm helping them in the learning environment that I'm trying to create. And they can earn it back. Every trimester, we reset, and they can get it back. I don't do it monthly anymore. 

Annabelle Williamson  

I used to just about to ask about earning it back. Because that's how in my classes, the only classes that have like a seating chart seating chart, are the ones that really need it. And very similar, like I'm strategic. I've had students say, well, these are still sitting next to their friends. And I'm like, well, so again, I don't want to punish the kids who were able to choose a seat and be successful next to their friends. But it's about helping everybody. But I have two classes right now. And that came out of their seating charts. And it's interesting, I love your point of like, it's, it's what did you say choice seating, like that's going to be their seat. Because even though I've never said that that ends up being what it is like, these two classes, the kids are coming in every day and they're still sitting in the exact same spot, but they've chosen. They've like selected that and they're doing amazing, and it's been successful. And they know that we don't need to have a seating chart again, if you're being successful where you've selected, and you are able to sit next to your friends and listen and acquire and do your pair shares and come straight back to me and those sorts of things. So, but I was just about to ask you about like earning it back. And so, you do what every trimester you said.

Jess  

Yeah, more or less. I'm about to reset going back after vacation right now but what you were just saying about the choice in the success in the pair shares that is so connected, this is where I like to go bonkers sometimes during your sessions or when I was there in person like that is so connected to adolescent brain. One thing that I haven't mentioned yet is they are so more likely to take risks, if they are in the presence of peers that they feel safe with, or even in the perceived presence of peers that they feel safe with, which is wild to me, even if they think their friend is like, through the double, mirrored glass, whatever they build, perform differently than if they think nobody is there. In the studies that I've read about, but so to be able to have an environment where the students who can handle and have the executive functioning part of their brain developed so far, again, not a punishment, just where are you at, to have them near peers, that they feel safe doing the activity, know that to your partner shares, they are more likely going to be able, they're going to take those risks, they're more likely to be able to take those risks. So, it's not just like, it's one of those things, again, where, like, what you're doing is right, and this is why, and I just feel so strongly about like this, it's not a trend, like it's what you're doing is right. And this is why and it's because they feel like in the study that I did my small personal study connected to my all my research, my students felt like they learned more when they were able to work with a peer, they felt safe with. And it was, I was like, well, of course, and but to have that that data and then to know that it also was backed up and research is powerful. And to know that we're giving that opportunity to students that make it a successful opportunity in the classroom. Because then there are students that like I want to, I want you to sit near your friend, I really do, but You're distracting me, which means I can't teach, or you're distracting your friend, which means your friend can't learn. So, I want this for you. But we're not ready yet.

Annabelle Williamson  

And we can I think that's we, what, and we can get there, we get there. But it's just that right now.

Jess  

I want you to get there, I want this for you. And I'm gonna give you the opportunities. It's also my responsibility to teach this whole classroom. And so, I need to take care of everybody's needs, not just yours. But I am taking care of their needs in that moment, because I'm meeting them where their brain development is that which feels really, it helps me back up a lot of the decisions that I do in my classroom.

Annabelle Williamson  

Yeah, it helps anchor you. I love that so much. And I think that ultimately with any of these things, it's like what I'm feeling like so blown away by is like, I feel so good about so much of what I've been doing for years, when I talk to you. And when I talk to people like Liam Printer, who are the people eat y'all who do the research and who, like, literally geek out over the research and the theory and those sorts of things, that it's not my strong suit. And it's not something that I love to do when I just sit and think for a second. And listen to the research and listen to the theory that you're sharing. It's all no brainer stuff. It's all in the same way that I as an adult, will feel more successful and more joyful, more willing to participate more willing to do all these things. If I know I'm sitting next to a good friend, then a total stranger that I don't know, then yeah, it's all a no brainer.

Jess  

I think it's a no brainer for somebody who is in the newer generation of being an educator because we kind of grew up as teachers in the last 10, 15 years. differently. When we started teaching, it was differentiation. We started our educational career with what do different learners need. And so, we never had it as an authoritarian environment. And I think that as much as you and like, I was very interested in this research, and it backed up a lot of what I was doing and informed changes that I needed to make. I don't I don't think that it's necessarily I would challenge the fact that it's necessarily a no brainer for teachers that have been teaching longer. Because the environment and the culture that more veteran teachers have been in was a respect and respect is expected versus is it’s, I feel like it's different. And I feel like the sit and listen was expected and show your best every day was expected. And I think that we're coming into an era where we can really recognize and recognize that that's not that's not realistic. And at the same time, I hold students who have very high levels of accountability with my, like, they know that like, okay, yeah, off days, go to the bathroom, if you really like something that was overwhelming you in the classroom right now, and come back and do high levels of learning. Because that's, I also expected that of you. Because I respect you, and I love you. And I want you to be here. And I want you to learn all the wonderful things so that you can be happy in this classroom over the next years that I have you. So, I think that it's a no brainer for maybe 10- or 15-year-old teachers. But I think for the more veteran teachers, it's something to be learned and something to be understood about. Because they've been through all the cycles of the project-based learning that went away. And then differentiation that isn't mentioned anymore. And then, you know, all they’ve been through all the cycles are like, Oh, novelty, fun. Okay, this is just the next new thing. I think it's important to understand that its brain based. And it's not just the next new thing that's gonna go away. Evolution doesn't really allow that.

Annabelle Williamson  

You're so good as well. So, God, thank you so much my Jess, I'm so grateful. And I'm so glad that you've been able to share your passion with these teachers, whoever's listening, and I'm really excited for your presentation this this summer for Familia loca.

Jess  

We're going to share more about the cortisol and how to prevent cortisol in the presentation in the summer. Um, yeah, I'm super excited to share about those things. And I'm doing some more research about those things.

Annabelle Williamson  

I just feel like, I'm so gifted. And I'm so grateful to know you. And I think that a lot of people will benefit from hearing this and hopefully, they'll be able to learn more from you in the future. So, thank you for joining me tonight. And thank you for taking time on your vacation to do so and switch your brain into school mode a little bit for me, but I'm really, grateful for your time and for your friendship. You're incredible.

Jess  

Thank you. Love you too. Okay, y'all until next time, we'll be teaching la vida loca. And we are sure you will be too. If you've enjoyed this, make sure you check out the show notes because a lot of what Jess mentioned is going to be linked in the show notes. If I have anything related, I'll also link it for you. And we're grateful if you've enjoyed this, pass it to somebody else who might need to learn a little bit about how dopamine plays a huge role into in the classroom and how much more affects the adolescent brain than others. Send this along to somebody who might need it. We appreciate you and until next time. Take care.